#2476 - Shanna H. Swan

[00:00] Joe Rogan podcast check it out the Joe Rogan experience train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day great to see you again great to see you Joe happy to be here happy to have you here [00:17] So you've got a documentary about... [00:20] essentially about the same subject that you talked about last time you were here, the impact of microplastics. [00:27] all these various endocrine disrupting chemicals that we're dealing with. [00:32] Right. [00:33] Tell me about it. [00:35] So [00:36] Well... [00:38] It started as a movie on plastic. And when I met Louis and he filmed me in New York about five years ago also, it wasn't [00:51] the small study that we have today. [00:57] But let me backtrack because I want to tell you something that I never told you but was so important to me. So you remember when I was here, you said... [01:08] Are you saying the toxins in the environment are threatening the survival of the human race? Right. And I said, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Yes. Yes. And then you said something which changed my life. [01:25] You said, why don't people know about this?

[01:31] Remember that? Yes. [01:32] Okay. [01:33] I went home and I thought a lot about that question. [01:38] And that was what [01:39] led me to create the program that I have now, Action Science Initiative, [01:47] which is doing short, impactful, [01:51] relatively cheap interventions, [01:53] to alert people to the problem [01:56] and communicating this [01:58] in a way that I'm hoping... [02:00] will reach more people than academia where I was speaking before. Because before I talked to you, [02:08] I talked to my peers in [02:11] you know, [02:12] academia and the ivory tower, you know, at the meetings where they all went, they read the papers that we all read. [02:19] the general public didn't get this. So you really were, I have to tell you, thank you. And you were actually very influential in my life. [02:28] Well, I'm very happy to help. When I first heard about your book and I – [02:33] Started going over the details of it and the subject matter. I was shocked. I couldn't imagine that something like this could not just have happened, but there's no large scale. [02:46] effort to reverse course or to change course or to do something about it, or at least to make people aware of the impact that plastics are having on us. Let me tell you a story about a friend of mine. [02:56] There's a guy named Philip Franklin Lee, who is a Michelin star chef that lives in Austin. And he has this amazing sushi restaurant, Sushi by Scratch and great chef. Anyway, he was experiencing fatigue, like always tired, got his hormones tested, extremely low testosterone.

[03:20] but then got his microplastics tested, and they were off the charts. [03:25] Um, [03:26] Did a series of interventions to try to clean his body out from that, stopped drinking anything out of plastic, stopped using plastic just by whatever he did. I'm not sure if he did the plasma phoresis thing that I just did recently. [03:45] His testosterone went up to 1,200. [03:48] With no testosterone replacement, no nothing. Just eliminating microplastics from his life over a period of time raises testosterone. [03:57] So... [03:58] That's fantastic, and it's what we are seeing in the film and so on. I want to just make a small point, which is microplastics – [04:08] And plastics and plasticizers are not identical. Right. OK. Right. So microplastics are relatively newcomer to the scene because we've had plastics since 1950. Right. Microplastics have been there, but not recognized until relatively recently. And actually measuring them in. [04:29] in our bodies is much harder than measuring. [04:32] The... [04:33] plasticizers, which are the chemicals that are put in plastic to give them the various properties that they have. [04:40] Phthalates is one, bisphenol A is another, [04:45] And so on. So there are other, you know, [04:48] And by the way, [04:50] you

[04:51] Well, we'll come back to that later. So yes, we can measure those, but measuring microplastics, particularly if we're going to go into your brain or into your testicles, into a woman's placenta, obviously that's much more difficult. So they're not the same, but the microplastics, what they are is the [05:12] actual pieces of plastic that carry the plasticizers along with them. So they kind of piggyback on. So they do [05:21] double damage because they carry the chemical harms and they also... [05:27] physically enter the cells [05:29] Right? [05:30] So do you remember, I'm sure asbestos you know about, you know, and silicosis. And these were other examples of particles that went into the body and conveyed both chemical harm and physical harm, like inflammation and so on and so forth. [05:48] They're all bad, but they're not identical. [05:54] plastic detox, which is the film, that was, we did not study any microplastics. We studied the [06:03] plasticizers, [06:05] So, [06:05] You probably remember, I think I told you last time. Well, why should you remember? Anyway, they're water-soluble. Yeah, I do remember. You remember that? So they go into your urine and then... [06:16] They're pretty easy to measure. [06:18] I'm going to give this to you.

[06:22] This is a kit. Open her up. I don't tell you what it is. Okay. [06:26] Learn what's inside. [06:31] It looks like you're peeing that. [06:33] Mm. [06:34] Okay. That's right. Keep going. And there's more stuff in there? Yep. Okay. Something to send it back? Right. And then this looks like biohazard bags. To put your pee in. So when pee doesn't kill anybody? [06:49] Thank you. [06:50] And this is... [06:54] It's got a QR code on it. [06:57] Say hello to a healthier you. [06:59] So those are ways to find out ways to lower your exposure. Okay. Yeah. I know a lot of people get these harmful chemicals from drinking coffee, hot liquids out of paper cups. [07:13] Yeah, from the paper cups that are lined with, for example, bisphenols. But the coffee itself is made in a – most coffee makers contain a lot of plastic also. So it comes in both the cups and in the device that's making the coffee. That's why we use – [07:29] Metal. That's good. And just make a French press. I do that at home, too. I got rid of my plastic coffee machine. Me, too. I was thinking about it. I was like, why am I pouring hot water into this plastic thing that can't be good? Yeah. It doesn't taste as good. You're learning. You're learning. French press tastes better anyway. [07:45] This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Paramount+. UFC history is going down at the White House. It's the world's greatest fights on America's biggest stage. Watch UFC Freedom 250 at the White House live today only on Paramount+.

[08:05] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [08:16] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. [08:46] meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try the Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. [09:14] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills. If you enjoy food, and I mean really good food, Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill. It's the ultimate way to cook outdoors, delivering unbeatable wood-fired flavor thanks to the all-natural hardwood pellets that fuel everything you grill, smoke, or bake.

[09:44] Just wood and fire and flavor. And what's truly wild is how easy it is. Just set the temp, load the grill, and let Traeger handle the rest. Grilled steaks, smoked ribs, even baked pizza, all on one grill. If you're into fire, flavor, and doing things right, check out Traeger Grills. [10:04] So here's my suggestion. If you're willing to do this. I am willing to do this. You are. Good. Cool. So. [10:11] Not hard. Okay. Pee in the cup. Send her in. Got it. [10:15] my colleague Jenna Wah and her team will... [10:19] analyze it for not everything in the world, but the bisphenols. [10:24] The phthalates and the parabens. Okay. They're going to be adding pesticides soon, and that would be great to have that as well. [10:33] Then, if you want to go to phase two... [10:37] Thank you. [10:39] I have some things here that you could swap in your kitchen, and you could... [10:44] Go to that... [10:45] QR code and find out [10:47] other things that you could reduce. [10:50] And then if you wanted to, [10:52] we could send you another kit and you could see if your levels changed. Okay. You want to do that? I would love to do that. Yay! What is phase two? [11:01] A phase two would mail you back another kit, you take your urine again, [11:05] And that's it. So that's to see if it's changed because of lifestyle changes. [11:11] That's right. Right. That's right. So you would be doing what the couples in, part of what the couples in the intervention did. The couples in the intervention also were...

[11:21] were infertile. And so we're not going to touch your fertility question, but they also, the men collected sperm, and we can do that if you want, but I don't think you, you know, you may not want to talk about that on your, for some reason. But, um... [11:35] That's what we did in the intervention. So we in the intervention we found, I'll just this is this is what the intervention was. [11:42] So, [11:44] There's a... [11:45] company called Fellow. [11:47] which is... [11:49] grown out of UCSF. And they're very big now. I think they have like 200,000 men in their files who have had their... [11:58] semen tested. [12:00] And at the time they have their semen tested, they're asked... [12:05] Could we recontact you for research? [12:08] That's one important question. And they're asked, why did you want your sperm tested? [12:14] And if they say because we're infertile, [12:18] Or sub hurdle, are we worrying about our fertility? We ask, or they ask, how long... [12:24] has it been that you've been... [12:25] having this problem with fertility. And if it's more than 12 months, then they're technically infertile. [12:33] Right. So if they said, [12:36] they would [12:37] agreed to be recontacted, and they were infertile, they were potentially... [12:43] eligible for this intervention. [12:45] You with me? Got it. So... [12:48] Actually finding the couples that are in the film was a long process. They had to, of course, agree to be filmed. They had to have what we call...

[12:59] terrible word, idiopathic infertility, no known causes. And they couldn't be obese, they couldn't be smokers, they couldn't have a diagnosis, a medical diagnosis that explains. We don't want it to be unexplained. Got it. [13:13] No. [13:14] sort of we winnowed down [13:16] to what was six couples, one of them dropped out. [13:20] Um, [13:22] for personal reasons. So I won't go into that. But that's how we got those couples. They had to be couples, by the way. And they had to be staying together for the next three months and not doing IVF. [13:33] Okay? So that was the setup. And then... [13:39] the company called Million Marker that [13:42] You're going to send your [13:43] P2. [13:44] um [13:46] They have a... [13:47] education program. [13:49] And that's a lot of what they do, the testing and the education. And so all of those couples, you know, they talked to them and said, tell me about what you put on your face this morning. [14:00] Tell me what you washed your clothes with. [14:02] Tell me what you clean your counters with and on and on and on like that. Right. So they took an inventory of what the couples were doing. [14:10] And then they started this educational program, which they're very good at and been doing for a while. Once a week, they talk to them. So how's it going? Have you changed this? What are you using now? And so on. So it was not just a one-time thing. And if you were doing this, it would be short, you know, just... [14:27] like use these things maybe. But

[14:32] Along with that, [14:33] We sent them... [14:36] the fellow kids to collect their semen. [14:40] Okay, so we have beginning, middle, and end. [14:43] It was three months, so beginning six weeks. [14:46] 12 weeks. And you know why three months? Why? It takes 70 days to make a sperm. [14:53] Um... [14:54] So we wanted to have a turnover within the course of the intervention. [14:58] So we sent them a kit, and they collected their semen at home, which is nice for guys because... [15:05] You don't have to go into lab and do it there. You know, it's much better at home, right? Yeah. [15:10] and they send it in and they figured out how to get all the parameters right even though it's mailed. [15:17] Yeah, so the couples did that. [15:19] So we had, over time... [15:21] Thank you. [15:24] levels in their body of the chemicals, semen quality, [15:28] what they were doing, what they changed in their life, because we have this record of everything they changed. And then finally, [15:35] we saw who got pregnant. [15:36] And I hope your listeners will watch this. [15:41] the plastic detox it's a movie that a lot of people love and and found you know really moving um and you should watch it can i ask you about the coffee question when you go to a place like let's just say starbucks not to single them out but are they using plastic with their coffee machines are their coffee machines made with plastic

[16:03] ... [16:04] I don't know about any particular place except my kitchen. I was just wondering. Yeah, I suspect that they are using plastic. [16:12] Right. So if people stop at a place like that on a regular basis on their way to work in the morning to get coffee and they bring their own stainless steel thermos or mug, that would eliminate some of it. One source. Yeah, but perhaps they're getting it actually from the coffee machine itself. [16:34] Yes, yes, yes, yes. When you see these big industrial machines and they slide those filters in, those filters are plastic. [16:42] Well, they're probably – they probably have bisphenol in them, yeah. Right. It's a plastic tray. It seems like. I don't know. But then there's a paper filter in the plastic tray. Right. So you're getting it no matter what. And if they use those pods, you know – [16:58] Yeah. [17:00] Bruno, one of our [17:03] guys in the film... [17:05] Wonderful guy. He was kind of addicted to his coffee machine, his pods. Right, the pods. And we said, Bruno, we want you to stop using those pods. No, I don't want to stop using them. But he did. He did. And... [17:19] They've had two babies. [17:21] Now, I'm not saying that's the reason, but, you know, it's a... [17:24] contribution probably. Well, there is certainly an issue. Like I said with my friend Philip, that it made a radical difference in his sperm count and his testosterone levels. And so this is probably the case with so many Americans in this country that are dealing with infertility issues. A big part of it is probably these

[17:43] plasticizers, is that how you refer to them? Yeah. Plasticizers, all these various chemicals that are endocrine disruptors that are ubiquitous in the modern world. Yes, unfortunately. It's crazy. And by the way, not the women, let me show you something. We didn't talk about the women last time very much, right? A little bit, we did. A little. Yeah, we... [18:01] I think we did. So the women [18:03] need testosterone too. [18:06] Um... [18:07] you know, for sexual arousal and libido and so on and muscle and [18:12] Um, [18:14] And... [18:15] In our study, study for future families, I think, or maybe... [18:22] Yeah. [18:23] We got the urine. We saw how much phthalates were in their urine. And then we asked them some questions about... [18:32] their sexual experience. So how satisfied were they with their sexual [18:38] sexual life and frequency. [18:42] And the women who had higher levels of phthalates... [18:46] had less satisfaction and lower frequency. [18:49] So it's not just the men. [18:51] Completely makes sense. [18:53] Everyone needs testosterone. Yeah. My wife's friend got on testosterone. She's a... [18:59] I guess she's about 50. She got on testosterone because her doctor put her on some low level of cream or something like that. And her response was like, it makes me horny like a bloke. She's English.

[19:14] I thought that was a very funny thing that she said it that way. Did she think that was a good thing? Yeah, she enjoyed it. Yeah. Apparently. Allegedly. I didn't speak to her directly. But I think that's what she was saying. [19:29] Yeah. Well, I mean, it's the thing that came out of your the episode that we did that. [19:36] shocked me the most is how little this is discussed in the mainstream. And I had not known until you brought it up, until you became a guest on the show, until I started researching it. I was stunned. I couldn't believe that this was something that was so common. And so – [19:55] One of the things that comes up all the time is infertility with couples that are trying and they're using IVF and it's more common now than ever before. And there's been a lot of things that people – a lot of factors that people have attributed to that reason, a lot of them being older people that are – they put their careers aside. In their 30s, they decided now it's time to have kids. They're worried that it's too late. But – [20:20] Listening to you talk about it, it seems like that's only one part of the issue and not the big part. The big part seems to be that we're being poisoned and we're doing it by virtue of our modern world that we live in where so much of your life relies on plastic. [20:38] And it's very difficult for people that are so set in their ways, they have routines, they don't really understand, like, what can I do to eliminate this stuff from my life?

[20:50] Just having the conversation and understanding that these things are having an impact is great, but the steps that people need to take in order to eliminate these things from their life, I think that's what's really important to get out there now. [21:02] I... [21:02] Thank you. You said it really well. Let me just give people a... [21:07] A place to go, you go to unplasticyourlife.com. [21:12] Thank you. [21:13] Okay. And then there's [21:15] action and [21:16] Then you can go to the various places in your home that you can. It's just on plastic your life. One word. Unplastic. Unplasticyourlife.com. [21:24] Yeah. Let me see if I got that. Yeah. So on PlasticYourLife.com, go to Action Hub and then to Protect Yourself. [21:34] And that'll give you lots of things to do to lower these exposures. It's almost time for spring break. So maybe you're headed to the beach or maybe you're taking the kids on a road trip or maybe you're just taking some extra time for yourself. No matter what, you deserve a break and a reset and AG1 can help. AG1 is your daily health drink. Just one scoop combines your multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants to help support a healthy immune system and digestion. [22:04] Plus, it travels really well, so you can start working it into your routine, even when you don't have a routine. Just slip a few travel packs into your luggage and have a nice flight. [22:13] I've talked about AG1 for a long time, and it's not just me. I know a lot of people enjoy it. It's very easy. It's very convenient, and you deserve to take care of your health. Visit drinkag1.com slash Joe Rogan, and for a limited time, get a bottle of omega-3, vitamin D3, K2, and an AG1 flavor sampler for free in your welcome kit with your first subscription.

[22:43] com slash Joe Rogan. Nonstick cookware, that stuff has. Is that different? Yeah. It was when you have nonstick cookware, does that have any endocrine disrupting chemicals as well? But different ones. Different ones? Which ones are those? So those are what's called the PFAS chemicals. And so. [23:03] It's actually not just cookware. It's anything that puts a barrier. [23:09] between... [23:10] to medium, if you will. Like a rain jacket will put a barrier between the rain and your skin. [23:18] and also stain-resistant, mortgages. [23:22] barrier with the stain. And [23:26] It's... [23:28] Very, very prevalent. I mean, it's all, you know, it's in clothing, it's in... I've read it's in a lot of yoga tights and things along those lines. Yes, yes, workout clothes. That's so crazy. You think you're being healthy. Yeah. And you're exposing yourself to endocrine-disrupting chemicals. Yeah. [23:43] And uniforms, there's a book. [23:46] I probably shouldn't recommend another book, but I think it's a good book. I'll just say it's called To Die For. [23:52] D.Y.E. And it's about the flight attendants uniforms and the harms that they do because they have a lot of PFAS because they, you know, [24:02] have to keep clean and they're not clean, right? Because they have this PFAS in them. It's in sports uniforms. [24:09] You do a lot with sports, all the sports uniforms. Nylon. [24:13] Yeah. Is it anything with nylon? Is that what it is?

[24:17] Probably, but I'm not sure. [24:19] you know, I could [24:21] refer you to somebody, but I'm not the clothing expert, but I know that they're in these things. And one of the things that is kind of scary... [24:30] is school uniforms. You know, a lot of kids have school uniforms and they're loaded with it. [24:35] Oh. Yeah. [24:36] Yeah, my kids used to wear a uniform every day. Yeah. When you say to dye for, are dyes in cotton clothes also releasing? Yes. [24:45] Really? Yes. Dyes are very... [24:49] Risky. We've got to go back to being Amish. Yeah. Here it is. There's a violin from the book there. Oh, good. Yeah. So in fact, there's little or no regulation of clothes or textiles we wear each day, from uniforms to fast fashion, outdoor gear, and even the face masks that have become ubiquitous in recent years. Wicker explains how we got here, what the stakes are, what all of us can do. [25:08] in the fight for a safe and healthy wardrobe for all. Wow. [25:13] And that's in the film, discussed in the film, a little bit. [25:17] Not the major, but it's... So, Blue Jeans? [25:22] Probably. Probably. I can't, you know... [25:24] Speak about there is a river. I believe it's in China where a series of blue jean factories exist where the entire river is blue. [25:37] It's so disgusting. Like not blue, like beautiful, clean water. Blue, like dyed. Died water. Look at this. Look at that. [25:46] Thank you. [25:46] Oh, that's the blue jean capital of the world. Wow. That's where they make a lot of blue jeans. And look at the stinky, dirty, disgusting blue dye water that is just that river leaking out into the ocean, which also looks polluted.

[26:01] You want cheap clothes, kids? This is what happens. It's so crazy. Like, look at that stuff. I mean, how many jeans are they making? [26:11] And what are the... [26:14] And this is a good point for me to point out that these things are affecting... [26:18] Animals, of course. [26:20] Like the animals fish in this. Africa too. Look at this. African rivers as well. Yeah. [26:24] to you [26:26] Of course we do it in other places. If we did it in America, people would be aware. [26:31] Canada. [26:32] Canada too. I'm not sure they'd be aware. [26:34] You don't think so? [26:35] We're trying. [26:37] We're trying. We're trying to get them aware. I mean, that's what we're doing right now, right? [26:41] Right. So to go back to that point you raised about, you know, [26:47] Thank you. [26:48] Reasons that people give for... [26:50] low testosterone or low fertility, low sperm count, [26:55] And particularly this comes up for [26:57] fertility. More couples are [26:59] You know the fertility is in the toilet, right? Yes. That's a weird thing to say, but... Yeah, right. For lack of a better... Right, right, right. Yeah. [27:11] I mean... [27:12] It used to be five... [27:14] children per couple on the average in 1960, and now it's [27:18] And [27:19] In South Korea, it's like 0.88. [27:23] Wow. [27:24] That's the worst. Why is South Korea the worst? I don't know. I mean, all of East Asia is very, very low. South Korea, their replacement numbers are so low that they're in danger of complete population collapse. Absolutely. And Japan is getting there and all of that Southeast Asia...

[27:43] and, um, [27:45] Thank you. [27:46] So – [27:48] When there's a lot of articles about this, a lot of editorials, a lot of articles, and they make me so... [27:53] Joe, they make me so mad because... [27:56] They... [27:57] say correctly [27:59] that having a child at an older age [28:01] will do this to some extent. You know, not wanting to have children, as many children, will do this to some extent. But they never mention toxics. [28:11] They just and so I've written editorials saying, hey, guys, we're not alone on this planet and we're not the only species that's declining in number. And then if you look at the curve of the number of species that are declining and the rate of decline of human fertility, they're parallel. It's all about one percent per year. And and so there and we know they're exposed. These other species you showed it. [28:41] Fish in that water are exposed and, you know, animals on the periphery. So... [28:46] I would love... [28:47] for everybody when they look at these numbers of declining fertility, consider [28:54] that it's not all choice. [28:56] Right. Animals are not choosing to have their children later or to delay childbearing, right? They have big careers. Beavers are trying to make dams. They don't have time for children. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So for me, you know, it's...

[29:14] Not... [29:15] Those are good... [29:17] Those are explanations for sure. [29:19] Obviously when you get older, your fertility is less. [29:22] Obviously, if you have a busy life and you don't have time to have children, you shouldn't have children. But... [29:29] The toxics matter. They matter a lot. Yeah, 100%. And the animals, is the issue exposure to water that has these chemicals in it because of pollution? What is... [29:42] What is causing it with them? It's in the water. It's in the soil. [29:47] Um... [29:48] in what they eat because it comes in the plants. [29:53] It gets into the plants? [29:55] Yeah. Do you know that phthalates, I'm just, this is a little fun fact. [29:59] Phthalates are put in pesticides. [30:03] Why would they do that? Well, because one of the things that phthalates do is they increase absorption. That's why they're in hand cream. [30:12] Right? You see, you put your hand cream on and it goes in your skin, right? Phallus help that. You have the pesticide you wanted to go into the plant? [30:20] Valor has helped that. [30:21] So, [30:22] you know, [30:23] There... [30:24] these exposures are all over the place for and animals are getting them to a long time ago [30:31] I don't think we talked about this, but there was a wonderful scientist who's not living anymore. His name is Lou Gillette. He lived in Florida. [30:41] Alligators. [30:42] Thank you. [30:43] swimming in a lake that had a lot of runoff

[30:47] of pesticides. [30:50] Get this, their penises were small. [30:52] he measured them and he was a big guy he went, he had to do it at night he went at night [31:01] wrestled them into the boat. And I have pictures of that. Took them to his lab. Measured their penises. Measured their penises. They must have been very confused when they got let go. Like, what is this guy kinky with? What is his thing? [31:16] You know, and they had fewer [31:20] Right. [31:22] So they're a declining species. That's just a very dramatic example of, you know, if you [31:28] can you put up [31:30] Mmm, penis size? [31:33] alligator penis sizes i'm just wondering as if you don't already google that jamie let me find you a photo uh i asked our perplexity this thing and it says so our sponsor perplexity said yes this has actually been documented in wild alligators males and heavily polluted lakes have on average smaller penises and other reproductive problems linked to hormone disrupting chemicals we are shrinking alligator penises ladies and gentlemen [32:01] And not only alligator penis sizes. 20 to 25 percent smaller penis sizes compared to males from a cleaner reference lake. [32:08] Males of lower testosterone levels, around 70% lower. [32:12] abnormal relationships between hormone levels and penis growth, unlike alligators from cleaner legs.

[32:18] Alligators from polluted lakes also show other reproductive issues, abnormal sex hormone patterns, altered gonads, low hashing success, various birth defects, all consistent with exposure to endocrine disrupting contaminants, EDC, such as DDT derivatives, deildrin, PCBs, and related compounds. [32:38] Wow. [32:40] So it's all endocrine disruptors from pollution. [32:44] Oh, boy. [32:46] Yeah, I mean, you would think that this would sound the alarm. And this is not new. This is, he's dead. This is old work. Oh. [32:55] And no one knows. [32:57] Yeah, it's never – first of all, there's not a lot of people that say, first problem on my list today, alligator penis sizes. It's a real issue. Like you're in front of Congress. We've got to talk. Alligator penis sizes are shrinking. They kick you out of the building. Actually, he, Lou Gillette, went to Congress. [33:15] And he... [33:16] gave talk, and he said... [33:19] Every man in this room is half the man his grandfather was. [33:24] Mmm. [33:25] As far as testosterone levels, right? [33:28] And penis size. Well, he didn't measure their penis size. He was making this point. Yeah, I understand. And fertility and all this. Yeah. Well, I mean, it completely makes sense. But what doesn't make sense is how little attention that's being paid. You would think that in a society that is – I mean, America is also facing a potential population collapse. People don't think about that. But our reproduction numbers, we're not – yeah, they're down quite a bit. And they're not at the level that we need in order to keep our population.

[33:58] It's the, you know, [33:59] The normal... [34:00] shape of the population is like this right so this is up here not very many people and down here lots and lots of people and this is terms of age older younger at the bottom right lots of people [34:13] but fewer down here. And then what that means is the ones down here are supposed to support the ones up here, [34:19] But there's not enough of them. But not enough of them. Right. [34:22] Yeah. So it's a huge societal problem. Well, it's just so confusing how few people are even aware of this. We were talking – I didn't realize it had been five years since our last podcast, which is pretty crazy. But in that five years – [34:37] you barely hear about it. It's occasional. People bring up certain chemicals they think are bad. Oh, avoid this. Paul Saladino was the one that showed that the [34:48] paper cups that you get from a coffee shop that if you take that paper away, what you have is essentially this plastic membrane. And that's what you're drinking your coffee out of. You're not drinking your coffee out of paper. And how terrible these things are for you. But even that it's like people just dismiss it. The line around Starbucks is always the same. So these people go in and get their coffee, they don't think anything of it. And they're just [35:13] consuming these chemicals that [35:15] Mess up your health, mess up your vitality, your energy levels, everything, brain fog. But whose responsibility is it? Well, to talk about it, I think it's ours. It's certainly yours and mine. And we'll spread this word and more people discuss it. And I think more people need to be aware that this directly impacts you. Like this is not like in the future. I don't have to think about it. I'll be dead.

[35:45] your energy levels, your vitality right now as a living human being listening to this show. [35:52] So just to add to that, [35:55] how it affects you, [35:56] Not you. Humans. Maybe your levels are lower. I don't know, but we'll find out. But... [36:02] both men and women who have lower fertility on average, these are studies, there have been about four or five studies that have shown this, [36:10] lower fertility and sperm count, [36:12] on the male side, die younger. [36:16] Die Younger. [36:18] Okay? [36:20] should be of concern to everybody. Yeah. [36:23] Well, it makes sense. Yeah. You have less vitality. You have less energy, less life force. Yeah, and the things that affect your sperm, your vitality, your testosterone are also affecting – it's a canary in the coal mine, if you will, of lots of things that are going south. Right. At the same time. Which completely makes sense. Right. [36:42] the case of my friend Phillip, all this fatigue, all these issues that he was experiencing. Yeah. Yeah. [36:47] Yeah, it's not just one, never just one thing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. [36:51] It's a... [36:52] It is quite disturbing how uncommon these discussions are, though. That's what's crazy. [36:58] you know that this is a this should be a huge factor I mean we get concerned with so many oh there's people concerned with alcohol consumption it's a big thing like and that has had an impact children today or young adults I should say today are consuming much less alcohol than people in the past cigarette smoking

[37:18] We're aware, very dangerous. Much less cigarette smoking than in the past. [37:23] the consumption of these endocrine-disrupting chemicals is essentially the same as when we talked five years ago. [37:31] This episode is brought to you by Dodge. The new Dodge Charger Scat Pack is built for people who still believe driving should be exciting. You want to talk about performance? Let's start with a twin turbo six-pack gas engine. All gas, no mercy, 550 horsepower, zero to 60 in just 3.9 seconds, [38:01] and attitude, the Dodge Charger Scat Pack comes with standard all-wheel drive and a selectable rear-wheel drive mode so you can get confident handling when you want it and the freedom to still be able to do burnouts. Available in both two-door and four-door models, the new Charger Scat Pack, it's loud, it's fast, it's powerful, and unapologetically Dodge. Learn more at Dodge.com. [38:31] is a registered trademark of FCA US LLC. This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone? If you are chronically online, like most of us are these days, your wireless network should be too. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G and unlimited hotspot, all powered by Verizon's 5G network.

[39:01] the cost visible isn't just a wireless plan it's unlimited wireless designed to keep you connected and no contract holding you back switch today at visible.com plan start at just 25 a month or get our premium visible plus pro plan and save ten dollars on your first month when you use promo code rogan an exclusive offer for podcast listeners [39:29] So I want to go back to this question I asked is whose responsibility? So I don't think it's. [39:35] I mean, it's great for you and I to be concerned and for your listeners to be concerned, but in fact... [39:42] It shouldn't. [39:43] be our responsibility because [39:46] You know, the drug, FDA... [39:48] does drugs, right? They have pretty good control of [39:52] you know, safety of drugs. [39:54] Pretty good. Yeah. Okay, we can talk about that. But compared to chemicals... [40:01] in our daily [40:02] products, the products we use every day, it's [40:05] Fantastic. Because the regulatory agencies are not... [40:11] doing the job. Right. Okay. And so that's why it's all out there. Of course, they're not doing the job. Here, in Europe, it's much better, by the way. Is it? [40:20] Well, that's bad because they're going to beat us. They'll out-reproduce us. We'll go away. They'll take over. No more America. We have to get people angry.

[40:31] Yes. Enough to put pressure on... [40:34] Thank you. [40:34] you know, there's a [40:36] Bill, the... [40:37] Tosca... [40:39] Toxic Substances Control Act, which should be [40:45] doing a lot of this and [40:47] I think it's coming up for revision and, you know, maybe people can pay attention to that and read about it and, you know, think government should be doing this. It's not our job. [40:57] It's not our job to worry about what's in our pants and what's in our this and our this and our this. You were asking what kind of denim and so on. Should we have to read up on that? Are there dyes for jeans and clothes that are not toxic? [41:15] Yes, but as I said, this is not my area. Yeah, you've got to get... [41:20] I can give you a name if you want to get somebody on clothing on this. Yeah, I'd be happy to. [41:27] Yeah. [41:28] just because it was relatively new to my consciousness when I was, you know, [41:33] doing the film and before that, we didn't collect data on that, unfortunately. You know, maybe we should do another study, which reminds me, it's just like – [41:42] So much work to be done. And for my program, there's so many interventions I want to do. We did this one, which was great success, and now we're doing... [41:52] another one and we have another one. But if anybody wants to help with this, it's all [41:59] privately funded. [42:00] The government is not going to fund this. Right.

[42:03] Unfortunately, fortunately. So, you know, [42:06] Let me know if anybody comes to you and says, how can we help? Well, I'm sure somebody will reach out. They usually do. The thing that I would imagine... [42:16] would be the response to something like this was that there are so many industries that are established already that – [42:24] require [42:26] the use of all these compounds, all these chemicals, all these endocrine-disrupting chemicals. And it is – [42:33] It's just everywhere. It's everywhere and everything. They use plastic in the – [42:37] production of so many different things. These things are leaching into our food. They're leaching into our clothes. They're leaching into all these various products that we use that contribute to these chemicals entering into our body, disrupting that. So you're aware of glyphosate, I'm sure. They were trying to eliminate glyphosate from the industrial agriculture. Good luck. Exactly. Well, the president passed an executive order blocking it because some enormous percent, [43:07] percent of all of our food in terms of wheat, corn, all the agriculture in this country relies on glyphosate for production. And... [43:16] So the idea is we need poison. [43:20] So that we can make food, which is so crazy, especially when you consider the fact that all these other countries don't use glyphosate and feed their population. So how are they doing it and what do we need to do to get back on that track and –

[43:37] You know, I had RFK Jr. in here to discuss it, and he was very crestfallen when he was explaining that there was an executive order passed and that he was working very hard to try to eliminate glyphosate. [43:48] In something that he discussed in previous meetings that he and I had, it was one of his primary concerns. Glyphosate is toxic. It's terrible. It's just completely awful for your body, yet the use of it is ubiquitous in agriculture, industrial agriculture. And he was trying very hard to try to eliminate it and then – [44:06] the government passes this... [44:09] Executive order because in their estimation – Yeah, exactly. Pressure. [44:14] Yeah, and this is what I worry about with – I don't want to mention any names, but there's a lot of these popular clothing brands that people wear that are fitness, I'm healthy, I'm fitness wear. [44:27] These clothings that you're wearing are leaching these chemicals into your body that are screwing up your health, which is so crazy. But it's so – I don't want to say it's perfect, but it sort of encapsulates – [44:41] how screwed up our modern life is. Yes, the paradox. [44:46] I did a study on glyphosate. I mean, I examined our populations for glyphosate. And interestingly... [44:55] They also have an effect on, remember anogenital distance? Yes. [44:59] The Taint Size. The Taint Size. Yes. They influence the Taint Size. Yeah. Now, that's not... We did it in two studies, and there's been some animal studies. I can't say this is an established fact, but I'm just...

[45:10] pointing out that it has very... [45:14] you know, many unforeseen consequences, none of them good. And by the way, I was [45:19] asked to go to talk to RFK tomorrow... [45:23] But I can't because I have another meeting. But I would love to talk to him about this because glyphosate is a big concern of mine. Well, I hope you do talk to him. Yeah, he has these roundtables on different scientific topics. So this one is on microplastics, which is not perfect for me because I haven't measured them. But if he has one on glyphosate or pesticides, that would be a good place. [45:53] on the glyphosate issue momentarily. They have some non-toxic solutions. One of them is they have this new device, which is like... [46:07] The same way these machines pull the crops out of the ground, these machines go over the crops and zap all the non-essential crops with a laser beam. [46:20] Non-essential crops excuse me non-essential plants so weeds I would say so as the corn's growing or whatever whatever else it is there's zapping all the other stuff that's growing around it that's sucking up all the resources all the weeds. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a good step. That's a great step because it minimizes the use of pesticides. Exactly. And I asked does it have any residual effect on the food he said no. Well that's great. But then you know.

[46:46] Farmers, one of the big problems is they're already barely making money. So if you now require them to spend X amount of dollars on some gigantic weed-zapping laser that has to cover who knows how many acres they're running these – I mean I'm sure you're aware, but monocrop agriculture – [47:07] For people who've never seen, some of these places that grow corn and wheat, you're talking about these massive pieces of land that only grow one thing, which in nature doesn't exist. So, of course, nature wants to rectify that. Nature's like, why is there only weed here? You need weeds. And so, you know, birds drop seeds, all these seeds fly in the wind, and then all these things grow. [47:37] and zapping out all the weeds. How much is that going to cost to people that are already struggling? Yeah. You know, because the American farmers are barely getting by, barely, and we need them. And, you know, the last thing you want to do is burden them with another cost. But also the use of, especially when it comes to things like wheat, because they're using it after they harvest the wheat to dry it out quicker so that it doesn't grow mold on it. That's why they're using glyphosate. [48:07] Mm-hmm. [48:07] I didn't know that. Yeah, they're using it as, I guess, a desiccator. Wow. Yeah. [48:12] And that's why so many... [48:14] So [48:15] theorized to be why so many people in this country have a problem with bread.

[48:21] It should make sense. And with her tape. No. And the tape. Yeah. A lot of tape problems. A lot of people complaining. But it's just... [48:29] It's so weird that we're so intelligent and so informed and now we all have supercomputers in our pockets that have access to things like perplexity. They can answer any questions you have about anything, but yet we're being poisoned by the very food that we eat, the coffee that we drink, the clothing that we wear. [48:47] The water we drink. The water we drink. Everything. Yeah. Here's a good question. Are there any good filters on a consumer level that will remove a lot of these chemicals from water? Yeah. [49:00] that a person could buy. [49:02] I can't name any brands. Right, but are they available? Yes, there are. Is it reverse osmosis? Like what are the ones that work the best? [49:11] I'll tell you my solution in my house. Okay, that's very personal. Um... [49:16] We distill our water. [49:19] You know, so the water... [49:22] Out of the tap, goes into a big... [49:25] container, and then it's boiled, steam is formed, crosses over, and the steam is condensed into another container, right? Right. [49:36] has nothing in it. [49:38] and removes everything. And by the way, all germs also. So, [49:42] That's what we've chosen. And in this thing that sits on the counter, my husband... [49:48] does this every other day. It's kind of a nuisance, but not too bad. And

[49:53] And the water is fantastic. Do you have to remineralize it? [49:57] You should take minerals somewhere. You can do it in the water. You can do it in your supplements. It does remove the minerals, yes. Right, and that's what I've heard is the problem with drinking distilled water is that it actually leaches minerals and nutrients from your own body. That I don't believe. No? I don't believe that. Okay. But the water itself has had its minerals. Well, let's put it into perplexity. What is the issue with drinking distilled water? [50:24] for health purposes. And did [50:26] Is it recommended that you add electrolytes or minerals or what have you? [50:31] Because that's – so one of the things that fighters do when they're cutting weight, I don't think most of them do it anymore. But a lot of them were drinking distilled water so that the water would go in their system and right out of their system. Because cutting weight for fighting – I don't know if you know about this. But they have to weigh in a certain weight class and essentially what they do is radically dehydrate themselves 24 hours before a fight. It's not a great idea. It's a terrible idea. So perplexity says it's generally safe to drink distilled water. [51:01] long as they eat a reasonably balanced diet. [51:04] Distilled water is simply water that's been boiled and recondensed, so it's very low in contaminants and minerals. Health sources note that it is safe to drink but tends to taste flat because minerals like calcium, magnesium are removed. What about minerals? You get the vast majority of needed minerals, calcium, magnesium, potassium, etc., from food, not water. So distilled water alone does not usually cause deficiencies in healthy people with a good diet.

[51:34] reduce mineral intake. And in specific groups, children, heavy exercisers, there we go, people with certain illnesses could contribute to electrolyte imbalance if diet is poor. So when might adding minerals help? Distilled water is humane or only drinking water and your diet is low in fruits, vegetables, and other mineral-rich foods. Adding a pinch of mineral salt or using a remineralization cartridge, that sounds terrible. Cartridge sounds like plastic, right? Or drops [52:04] amounts of calcium, magnesium, and electrolytes and improved taste. Athletes who sweat heavily, people with kidney or hormonal issues affecting electrolytes and those on very restricted diets should be more cautious about relying exclusively on distilled water and may benefit from electrolyte or mineral replacement as advised by a clinician. [52:23] I recommend people take electrolytes anyway. I always add electrolytes to water every day. Here's a funny anecdote. We have a cat. [52:33] What's the cat's name? His name is Archie. Archie. [52:37] And Archie comes out. [52:40] He patrols the house and steals our water whenever possible. He comes and drinks from our glasses unless we cover them up. So I think Archie probably likes your water because it doesn't smell like poison to him. He loves our water. And he has the choice of his own water, which comes out of the tap. And he will... [53:00] 100% prefer our distilled water. Which makes sense. If you think about a cat's sense of smell, it's got to be off the charts. Yeah. So he can probably smell, like, this water's got a bunch of junk in it. And when you do the process, which Stephen does, you know, every...

[53:15] other day, and he goes to clean the container that you put the water in, it stinks. It really stinks. You would be shocked. Wow. [53:24] Well, we have a crazy filter at our house. [53:28] We have well water and we have this crazy filter, this giant machine that filters all the water. It tastes delicious. But – [53:37] It's not distilled. [53:39] So I'm not saying that you shouldn't distill. That's an alternative. I mean, sorry, you shouldn't filter. That's an alternative. But I'm just saying what we chose to do. Right. And so the distilling, it removes chlorine and all these other issues that are in the water as well. [53:55] Yeah, and fluoride, everything. Fluoride is another one that's bananas that we add to water under the guise that it helps your teeth. Like, shut up, brush your teeth. I don't have any cavities. I don't use fluoride. I have fluoride-free toothpaste. I don't have fluoride in my water. It's dumb. It's not just dumb. It's completely connected to lower IQs. There's a direct correlation between higher fluoride content in water and lower IQs. But... [54:25] There's a giant business involved in selling fluoride to these municipal water supplies. I know. Which is nuts. More poison. And we are so screwed up. Chlorination. Yeah. And I've said for years I studied chlorination byproducts and they cause miscarriage. [54:44] So it's got to be terrible for people that swim a lot in public pools, right? Yeah. Because then it's being absorbed by your skin.

[54:52] I don't know how much exposure you get in the relatively short time you're swimming. Let's find out. I don't know. Yeah. Let's find out. Put that into perplexity. How much of an issue... [55:01] is chlorine exposure. [55:04] In swimming pools. [55:07] Hmm. [55:08] Let's find out. We don't know. [55:10] Thank you. [55:11] We're learning so much. I like how there's a little science. That question is going to get tossed around here by perplexity because it could go multiple ways. Like, is there too much chlorine? Like, what are you – you know what I mean? Right. Okay. Let's say – [55:24] uh, [55:25] Is chlorine exposure in swimming pools a health concern? Yeah. [55:30] That's good. There we go. [55:32] Let's try that. [55:34] I bet it is. I mean, it only makes sense. I would like to study someone like Michael Phelps, someone who spent like thousands of hours in a pool, whether or not it's affected his body in any way. Whether or not there's like measurable chlorine levels in his urine or what have you. Chlorine in properly maintained pools is generally considered safe, but it can cause irritation of eyes, skin, and airways. Well, that can't be good. And heavily frequent exposure, especially indoors, can contribute to respiratory problems in some people. [56:04] chlorine does in pools it kills germs like bacteria and viruses in pools and is key for preventing infections and diarrhea illnesses from contaminated water public health guidance typically recommends free chlorine about one to four parts per million with ph 7.0 to 7.8 within this range disinfectation disinfection is effective and side effects are usually mild common short-term effects irritation of eyes nose throat skin and

[56:31] Common when levels are high, when chloramines build up, especially in indoor pools. Chloramines form when chlorine reacts with sweat, urine, and other organic matter. It can become airborne and irritate the respiratory tract, causing coughing, wheezing, or tight chest in some swimmers and staff. [56:49] Long-term regular heavy exposure in indoors poorly ventilated pools has been linked to increased respiratory symptoms. Some studies suggest increased asthma risk. Okay, put this in as a follow-up question. [57:05] Uh... [57:06] is [57:08] exposure to chlorine... [57:13] through the skin [57:15] Hmm. [57:19] responsible [57:21] for any health issues. [57:26] Let's just through the skin. See if there's any studies on that. [57:31] Chlorine getting into the body through the intact skin from pool water does not appear to cause systemic whole body health problems in otherwise healthy people. Its effects are almost entirely local to the skin itself. What skin exposure actually does, chlorine is an irritant that strips the natural skin oils and disrupts the outer barrier, leading to dryness, tightness, itching. So put this in. What exposure does chlorine have to healthy skin flora? [57:59] Because healthy skin flora, you know, I –

[58:02] I do jujitsu, and one of the things that happens with jujitsu is you get a lot of skin diseases. Like you get – people get ringworm, staph infections. Well, you're getting scratched up a lot. You're rolling around on the mats, and if the mats are dirty and if it's just – there's exposure to it, you can have a problem. And then one of the problems that people have is to treat that, they use antibacterial skin soap. [58:32] Yeah. The counter to that, I always bring this up. I have no affiliation with this product, but it's an excellent product. It's called Defense Soap. [58:40] Defense soap is my friend Guy Sacco. He invented it. He's a wrestling coach. And it was a solution using healthy things like tea tree oil, eucalyptus in the soap that kills the bad bacteria but does nothing to the healthy flora. That's great. Yes. So that's the only soap that I use. Yeah. [59:02] Um... [59:03] Chlorinated pool water does disturb normal skin flora temporarily, but in healthy people, the microbiome usually recovers within hours to a day or so after swimming. So that's a problem if you swim every day then. Chlorine is a broad disinfectant, so it kills or suppresses both good and bad bacteria on the skin surface. Reducing overall microbial diversity right after swimming.

[59:33] diversity markedly, often cited around 30 to 40 percent, with composition shifting away from the usual dominant groups right after a swim. [59:42] How long disruption lasts after leaving the pool, many of the resident species begin to recolonize from deeper skin layers. Hair follicles and the environment and community composition tends to drift backward towards baseline over the next 24 plus hours. With frequent repeated swimming, daily or high volume training, the skin may be in a more chronically perturbed state with less time for full microbiome recovery in between exposures. [1:00:11] I know a lot of people have switched their pools over to saltwater pools for this very reason. I think there's a problem with saltwater pools in very high temperature areas, though, where it's not effective enough to stop mold and all the junk. Right, right, right. Yeah. [1:00:32] Thank you. [1:00:33] Do you want to see these products I brought? I would love to see these products you brought. Here you go. [1:00:38] These are for cleaning up your kitchen. Just a note on what you just said. What's up, Jimmy? A note on what you just said. A saltwater pool is still technically a chlorine pool. Oh, still a chlorine pool. It just makes the chlorine on site instead of pouring it in. Oh. Yeah. Salt systems work. Pool is ordinary salt, sodium chloride, dissolved in the water, usually around 2,700, 3,400 parts per million, which is about one-tenth the salinity of the ocean, and close to body fluid levels.

[1:01:08] electrolysis to convert some of that salt into active chlorine, [1:01:13] mainly hypochlorous acid and sodium hypochlorite that sanitizes the pool. After chlorine does its job, it ends up back as chloride, and the cycle repeats, so you keep generating chlorine as long as the system runs and there's enough salt. What's different from your standard chlorine pool, you still have free chlorine in the water at typical pool levels, about one to four parts per million. The difference is the source, salt generator versus liquid table chlorine, not the sanitizer itself. [1:01:43] Most people find salt pools a bit gentler, the water feels softer, and continuous low-level generation can mean fewer chloramines, less smell and irritation if the system is sized and maintained correctly. [1:01:58] Thank you. [1:01:59] Interesting. Okay, so it's still chlorine. So it still probably disturbs your microbiome, which sucks. [1:02:05] This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. April 15th is coming fast. There's been so many tax law changes this year, which means you're going to need an expert who has your back. You're in luck. TurboTax now has in-person locations nationwide. Walk into their tech-enabled stores and meet face-to-face with a TurboTax full-service expert who will get your best outcome. [1:02:32] Your expert works to get you every dollar you deserve while updating you as you go about your day. [1:02:38] Head to TurboTax.com to find a store near you.

[1:02:49] It should be open. No, it's not. It's sealed. It's tight. [1:02:53] What do we got in here? A lot of stuff. [1:03:02] participants with a big box about this big so this is obviously a very small part of that yep this is just part of your kitchen bags that are safe oven freezer microwave it's called zip top so they're silicone they're made of silicone okay yeah so silicone's okay silicone that's there is um food grade silicone okay and that is um [1:03:27] Like spatulas. [1:03:29] Yeah, and food-grade silicone is free of phthalates and... [1:03:34] So you can use that. Oh, this is a lot thicker. This is like... A lot thicker, yeah. Yeah. [1:03:40] And so this is reusable? Is that the idea? Yeah, absolutely. And you just put your food in the fridge in that instead of in a – So you can buy these things? This company, Zip Top, do they make them specifically for that reason? [1:03:54] Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, there's one of many companies that makes. So this is essentially like a Ziploc bag. Exactly. But it's way thicker. Yeah. [1:04:04] Kind of cool. And so they make these larger as well so you can – [1:04:08] There are a lot of good alternatives for food storage, you know, glass... [1:04:13] of course, is really good. [1:04:15] Mm-hmm. And ceramic is really good. Well, this seems so much better, too, because it's not creating as much plastic waste since it's reusable. Right, right, right. Now, do you just run this through a dishwasher? Yeah.

[1:04:25] Now, what about dishwashing solvents and detergents and stuff like that? [1:04:30] Oh, yeah. There's always problems. Yeah. The world's filled with problems, Jamie. The pods are probably not great. Oh, right. Of course. Right. [1:04:40] damn pods [1:04:42] pods tea bags coffee pods yeah remember when kids were eating tide pods [1:04:47] Thank you. [1:04:48] It's like... [1:04:49] Nature's trying to get rid of some of the dummies. [1:04:53] I think there's two of those in there. These are just little examples. Let's give this company a shout out. [1:05:00] It's called... [1:05:02] Zip top. [1:05:04] And I guess they make them all sizes. This is like sandwich size. Yeah. This is, I guess, a snack size. [1:05:10] And they make them larger too. Yeah, and they seal well, you know. That's another question that I had. [1:05:16] about sous vide. There's a lot of people that cook their food in these sous vide machines. A lot? Really? That's very common. [1:05:26] I thought it was kind of high, you know. [1:05:30] In restaurants and stuff? Well, I mean, I know there's consumer versions of it that I know a lot of my friends use it. Yeah, they use it for wild game. [1:05:40] particular because you can slow cook so one of the things about wild game it has a very low fat content and a lot of people find that it it's more tender if you slowly cook so let's say if you like medium rare is like what is medium rare like 135 degrees I think so you what you would do is you would take this

[1:06:02] piece of meat and you would seal it up in a vacuum sealed container and you dunk it in this sous vide machine and it keeps the water at 135 degrees. You can cook it for several hours at 135 and then you sear the outside of it. Nice. Yeah. And so a lot of people like that and it's really good for breaking down some of the harder stuff like, you know, the fascia. Gristle. Yeah. So is that stuff leaking chemicals into your food? It has to be, right? [1:06:32] Why? [1:06:33] Well, because it's in plastic. You're getting these vacuum-sealed plastic bags that the food goes in. Have you seen how sous vide works? You have to put it in plastic? Yes. Yes. [1:06:42] Have you seen how these sous vide things work? No, then it's bad. Then it sounds just as bad as microwaving in plastic. Right. So what you do with sous vide is you season the food, and a lot of times you'll add, like, olive oil and things like that to the outside of it. You couldn't make it out of silicone? I would imagine you could, right? [1:07:00] I don't know. Let's find that out. Has anybody made silicone-based sous vide bags? And do these sous vide bags leach chemicals? I just saw a discussion on Reddit about this, but they didn't really have an answer. [1:07:15] Like they're asking if the temperatures might not be high enough. I don't know. [1:07:19] Yeah, what are the temperatures that – [1:07:22] that start these chemicals leaching from the plastics into your water. [1:07:29] Because a lot of times they say don't leave a bottle of water in your car. That's right. Because your car can get really hot. Yes. So how hot is your car yet? It doesn't get that hot.

[1:07:39] It doesn't get, like, cooking hot. So it's like, what is... [1:07:43] But if the sous vide bags don't have plasticizers in them, like if they're made of silicone plastic, [1:07:49] Right. You know, food-based food. [1:07:51] What is it? Food grade silicone. Yeah, similar. So it says we use vacuum sealed bags. We're really going through them right now, even on our early sous vide. I tried silicone reusable and I wasn't happy. I don't really recall why. I think it was hard to get stuff in without a mess. OK, that doesn't make any sense. Just deal with the mess. We made a switch to vacuum bags. [1:08:13] I love it, but oof, we use a lot of bags. [1:08:16] Okay. [1:08:17] Put this into perplexity, please. Do sous vide bags leach endocrine-disrupting chemicals into your food when you cook with them? [1:08:27] Let's try that. [1:08:29] Sweet. [1:08:30] We're learning things. Yeah. Does it have to be vacuum sealed? Yes. Probably, right, because you don't want water leaking in there? Yeah. You don't want water leaking in. I have a machine, and I use this vacuum sealed machine. So if I get wild game and then I cut it up into pieces and then I seal it in these vacuum sealed bags to freeze it. [1:08:50] silicone-based sous vide bags are generally considered safe for food use and do not significantly leach [1:08:56] Significantly is a weird word. Leach harmful chemicals under typical cooking conditions. High quality food grade silicone is inert, BPA free. Right. This is silicone though. Food grade silicone shows minimal chemical migration.

[1:09:12] such as siloxanes, especially compared to plastics, can release microplastics like BPA. [1:09:22] This is a silicone though. [1:09:25] What was the question that you asked? How did you phrase it? [1:09:29] Okay, you write silicone-based Subi bags. Just let's – not silicone-based. Just like – [1:09:36] plastic sous vide bags. [1:09:38] Well, you know they're going to leak stuff. Let's find out. Regular plastic sous vide bags. [1:09:45] Let's see what it says. [1:09:46] Thank you. [1:09:47] Thank you. [1:09:48] I don't know. [1:09:50] Right. [1:09:52] But I want to make sure that it's vacuum-sealed sous vide bags. It should know that we're talking about sous vide bags here. [1:09:59] Regular plastic bags can be reasonably, I don't like that word, safe for sous vide if you use the right kind, food grade, BPA and phthalate free and rated for hot food. But all plastics can leak some chemicals and the data specific to sous vide is still limited. [1:10:15] What regular bags are safe? Look for bags made with polyethylene and or polypropylene that are labeled food grade and microwave safe. Is there a plastic that's microwave safe though? Is that real? [1:10:29] So, [1:10:29] These are considered safe with food up to around 190 to 195 Fahrenheit. Most brand zipper bags, Ziploc Glad, are polyethylene, BPA, and dioxin-free and are commonly used for sous vide at typical temperatures below 176 Fahrenheit.

[1:10:49] purpose-made vacuum sealer or boil-in sous vide pouches, that's what I use, are specifically certified as food grade for cooking and are the safest plastic option if you want disposable. So it seems like it's reasonably safe to do that. A review by Utah's Department of Health notes that there's a lack of studies directly measuring chemical leaching from sous vide bags, [1:11:19] and are considered safe for food contact. [1:11:23] Okay. [1:11:26] Mmm. [1:11:27] It says trout. See what it says there? Yeah. One trout study found detectable BPA in fish cooked. But the problem is... [1:11:34] Food, like, here's the problem. Freshwater lakes... [1:11:40] If you're catching a trout in a freshwater lake, freshwater lakes have horrible levels of [1:11:45] of these chemicals in them. And most people do not recommend eating food from freshwater lakes, which is so crazy. You think, oh, I'm going to go catch a fish from a lake. This is going to be really healthy. It's right from nature. Uh-uh. [1:12:02] No, we've ruined lakes. [1:12:04] Yeah. What is the issue? Put this in. What is the issue with eating fish from freshwater lakes in America? [1:12:13] What are the health issues? Health issues, yeah. [1:12:15] eating fish from freshwater lakes in America. [1:12:19] We've looked this up before. It's kind of stunning how much chemicals you get from a single fish that you would catch. So if you catch a trout from, you know, a regular lake, you go to a lake, it looks clean. I can see the bottom. Everything's fine.

[1:12:32] No, it's bad for you. In fact, I know a guy who is friends with someone who does a lot of fishing tournaments. So he goes to these fishing tournaments, catches a lot of fish, he eats a lot of fish, obviously. And he got horribly, horribly sick. [1:12:47] Because of heavy metal poisoning. Isn't that terrible? Crazy. You think you're eating fresh fish that you've caught yourself. It's got to be good, right? And it's got to be bad for the fish. Eating U.S. freshwater fish can expose you to chemical contaminants like mercury and PFAS. And if eaten, undercooked or raw, parasites and some bacteria. Most people can still eat freshwater fish safely if they follow local advisories and avoid high-risk groups, [1:13:17] Main chemical risks, mercury, methylmercury. Nearly all wild fish contain some mercury, but levels of many U.S. freshwater fish can be high enough to harm a fetus or a young child's developing brain and nervous system if eaten often. That's crazy. PFAS, forever chemicals. Many U.S. freshwater fish have measurable PFAS and in some studies show widespread PFAS plus mercury in fish tissue at levels that pose health risks for frequent consumers. [1:13:47] Pifos exposure has been linked to changes in liver and kidney function, cholesterol, immune response, pregnancy complications, and increased risk of certain cancers. I don't know why they haven't mentioned autoimmune. Oh, they do say immune response. Yes. Yeah, immune response. Yeah, this guy in Denmark studied people on the Faroe Islands, which they all eat fish. They catch them, you know, the Faroe Islands, and they catch them there.

[1:14:17] Then he looked at their antibody response to vaccination. [1:14:22] Oh. Down. And so think of what that means in, you know, like it's time of COVID or whatever. [1:14:29] I want to do an intervention where we [1:14:32] Take kids who are [1:14:34] getting [1:14:36] PFAS free school uniforms. Remember I told you PFAS was in school uniforms and [1:14:41] Then when they come in at age six, [1:14:45] for their first year, [1:14:46] you know, grade, they will have just had their booster. So then we could get their blood and see if the... [1:14:53] Booster. [1:14:54] you know, [1:14:54] antibody levels were [1:14:56] lower in the kids that had the PFAS uniforms versus the clean uniform. Booster for which vaccines? [1:15:04] Mumps, pertussis, MMP, I think it's called. Okay. Yeah, yeah. [1:15:09] This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctors' offices, online retailers, insurance companies, the list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone could do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances, and more. [1:15:39] like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they'll alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a LifeLock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit LifeLock.com slash J-R-E and save up to 30% your first year.

[1:16:09] slash J-R-E for 30% off. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Blinds.com. Texas summers don't mess around with patio surfaces easily reaching 150 degrees, hot enough to make your backyard feel like a punishment. And if your windows are bare, indoor temperatures can go up 20 degrees. Get ahead of it with custom solar shades for your den and your patio from Blinds.com. [1:16:39] a pro handle everything, they've got you covered. It's all online so you can shop whenever you want but still have access to real design professionals. They'll even send free samples. Blinds.com has been doing this for 30 years and they back everything with a 100% satisfaction guarantee so you can order with confidence. Right now, my listeners can get an exclusive 40% off when you [1:17:09] dot com promo code rogan 40 rules and restrictions apply [1:17:14] And so it's lower. It's a lower response if your body's exposed to these chemicals. So you would imagine even if you're not. [1:17:23] You just lower response period to all immune function based on this. Right. Right. [1:17:29] Right. [1:17:29] What is these things? Luffa mitts. Oh, the luffa mitts. So you can use them to scrub your sink or your face. Use them in the shower. Yeah, or in the shower. But you should use those for your food, too. But the sponges that most people use have a lot of chemicals in them. Of course.

[1:17:44] Makes sense. So these are better. Yeah, they're plastic sponges. And you get them in hot water and you're scrubbing things. And some of the stuff probably gets in your plates and your food and your... [1:17:53] Thank you. [1:17:54] your cooking ware alright what else we got here [1:17:59] Bees rap. [1:18:01] That's really nice stuff. What is this stuff? [1:18:03] Actually, you can treat, this is some kind of paper that's been treated with beeswax, so nothing dirty there. And take it out. You'll see how nice it is. [1:18:18] Thank you. [1:18:18] I love this stuff. I have a lot of it. [1:18:20] So you feel the wax. That's the wax. Oh, okay. So you use that to wrap your food with. Yeah. [1:18:28] And it seals on itself. [1:18:31] And you just rinse it out afterwards. So you don't have to use saran wrap and, you know, all these. It does seal on itself. Isn't it nice? It seems like a form fits around things. You can put it on an egg or a tomato or anything you want. Well, with my friend Phillip, I guarantee he eats a lot of sushi. He runs a sushi place. And if you ever go to a sushi place, all the fish is wrapped in plastic. Yeah. They're always wrapped in plastic. [1:18:54] Then they cut it open, and so there's exposure to all this stuff. All right. [1:18:58] You should use this stuff. Yeah. Probably the same level of sealing. Yeah. [1:19:02] Might be more expensive, though. [1:19:04] Yeah. [1:19:05] What's your health worth? Right. [1:19:07] But it's also reusable, which plastic isn't. Just wash it. That's the thing. It's like... [1:19:12] It's probably economical in the long run because –

[1:19:15] Plastic wrap, you don't reuse unless you're a psycho. And it gets all over the world. Right. Everywhere. Everywhere. [1:19:22] I'm sure you've seen the Pacific Garbage Patch, which is crazy, right? [1:19:29] These are bags. [1:19:31] And these bags are called Wowie. [1:19:34] W-O-W-E, right? And what is this? It's another food storage, you know. [1:19:41] Choice, option. Paper or no? No. [1:19:43] No, it's cloth. Cloth. [1:19:46] But clean cloth. Yeah. [1:19:47] And she used this? Like for bread, it's really good. Bread, cookies, you know, stuff like that. Okay. Yeah, we use those. [1:19:55] And so... [1:19:56] Is this all these different products listed on your website so people can – [1:20:01] They're listed on the million marker. There's a card there to scan the QR code, and you can go to that. [1:20:10] And, um... [1:20:11] But it would be nice if it was like a one – so if you scan the QR code, is there a one-stop shop? Like people listening to this right now, can we send them to a website that can – what website would that be? I don't – I can't remember. Look at the card. [1:20:23] Yes. [1:20:26] This one, Tips for a Detox Journey. [1:20:29] So this is the QR. So if I scan this right now, it'll take me there. [1:20:33] this world that we live in [1:20:40] Thank you. [1:20:40] We're not ready. [1:20:43] Okay, it says...

[1:20:45] the [1:20:45] The website is millionmarker.com. [1:20:50] Chemical glossary. [1:20:53] So this is the chemical glossary that's on this card, but it doesn't... [1:20:57] Not the products, right? It doesn't say the products. It says partners. So there's products on that other website I told you. [1:21:06] On Plastic Your Life. UnplasticYourLife.com. So that's a place where people can go and see these products? Here it is. So there's three steps. UnplasticYourLife.com, Action Hub, Action Hub. [1:21:18] protect yourself and then it can tell you how to protect yourself against various things in different rooms i have it by rooms what is this one jamie this one says this is it [1:21:27] This is the same website. I just already went to the action. Oh, so when you go to unplasticyourlife.com, it takes you to... [1:21:34] OSP, OPS, Society of Vision. Yeah, it redirects to this website. Got it. [1:21:39] And then go to the Action Hub, Protect Your Family. [1:21:43] And then are the products listed down there? Okay, yeah. There it is. Okay. Single. Okay. [1:21:49] non-plastic bags non steel cookware and [1:21:54] Got it. [1:21:56] replace the plastic cutting boards with wood. [1:22:00] So I think some people use titanium, which is fine too, right? And then what above that? What's above that? [1:22:05] steel single-use drinking water containers, [1:22:09] Never use plastics to store your food in. Never heat plastics. [1:22:14] Holy. Save your skin by selecting personal care products with natural ingredients such in glass or tin packaging.

[1:22:22] Oh, boy. [1:22:23] So disturbing. [1:22:26] Washing your clothes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. [1:22:30] By the way, we didn't talk about smell. [1:22:33] Smell. But everything that's fragranced has phthalates. Of course. And... [1:22:38] You know, like you think you're doing good if you hang... [1:22:42] that little... [1:22:43] pine tree in your car? Not good? Not good. And you plug in [1:22:50] Things in the wall that are supposed to clean up your air and, you know, refresh your air and so on, not good. There's ones that are in cars now, like certain cars. I think Mercedes has one where you refill it. [1:23:02] And you can... [1:23:04] It actually will spray air freshener through the vents. Oof. [1:23:09] Does a Mercedes do that? [1:23:10] I think it's Mercedes, which makes sense. Luxury. I want to smell like lavender as I'm driving. Oh, look at me in my luxurious car smelling lavender, dying of chemical exposure. Oh. [1:23:23] We asked women on this, you know, our study, we said, what do you use? And then we said, was it fragranced? And anything where they said that was fragranced, their body burden of phthalates was higher. Of course. What about natural deodorants? [1:23:40] I don't know. [1:23:41] Yeah, because – [1:23:42] I use natural deodorant to try to avoid a lot of that stuff. On the product for it on the website, it says it's a miscellaneous dangerous good, I think. What? I don't know what that is. What?

[1:23:52] What? What? [1:23:54] It says miscellaneous dangerous goods. Maybe it's when they ship it or something. What are you looking at? Other dangerous substances. The interior of the vehicle will be fragrances. It says it right there. [1:24:02] This is under Mercedes, under their smell. Aroma system, Pacific mood. Ooh, I want a Pacific mood. I'm living on the coast. I'm fabulous. And it says miscellaneous dangerous goods, other dangerous substances. That's crazy that it's labeled that way. The interior of the vehicle can be fragranced to suit your own individual preference with the air balance package. [1:24:27] Flacon, Pacific mood, lemon and orange top notes accompanied by a blend of spices. [1:24:37] But meanwhile... [1:24:38] It's probably not good for you. [1:24:41] So what is in there? They're engineered specifically. Does it say what? They're also subject to rigorous testing, which means each part comes fully certified. In the end, you can be sure that your vehicle will perform up to its potential, mile after mile. Let's see what this word meant. I don't know if you want to try this. Whoa. Can you say that word, doctor? Oh, no. [1:25:02] Gifar guttencyken. I'm guessing it means dangerous goods, but why am I not? [1:25:11] Dangerous? That sounds really crazy. Miscellaneous dangerous goods. Like hazard warnings. This is crazy. Like why, but why would they say that? Put it on their website, yeah. And then you're spraying it and you're breathing it in. It could be very well like one of those California rules where they say like this building has got

[1:25:28] dangerous chemicals that could cause cancer in people and it like has to be on everything. But it's just weird that that's in the actual stuff that you breathe in and smell. You know, I've heard another thing that's really bad for you is incense. [1:25:43] Probably varies with what's in it. I wouldn't blanket all incense. I haven't studied that. Let's put that into perplexity. Because I know candles are bad for you. [1:25:56] Scented candles in particular. Scented, yes. Yes, there's the aroma again. Yeah. See... [1:26:02] One of the things that phthalates do is they cause something to hold scent. [1:26:06] retain scent. So they're put into perfume and they're put into makeup and they're put into, you know... [1:26:12] the things you put on your wall and so [1:26:16] You know, you want something to smell for a long time, you're going to use phthalates. It says burning incense products, smoke and chemicals that can irritate your lungs, worsen asthma and allergies and with heavy long term use in poorly ventilated spaces may increase risk for heart disease and some cancers. [1:26:36] You know, you think incense, you go over to someone's house, they do yoga, they eat vegan, they burn incense, they must be healthy. Right. [1:26:44] long-term health risks, repeated long-term exposure daily for years, been associated in studies with increased risk of bronchitis, [1:26:52] reduced lung function in children, and chronic respiratory symptoms in workers heavily exposed to temple incense. God. Epidemiological studies, mostly in Asian populations with heavy daily use, have linked long-term incense exposure to higher rates of cardiovascular problems.

[1:27:10] hypertension, coronary artery disease, stroke, chronic limb. What's that word? Ischemia. Ischemia. What's that mean? [1:27:18] What does this keep me reading? [1:27:21] That can't be good. [1:27:22] Sounds terrible. [1:27:25] What is ischemia? I don't know. [1:27:28] What is ischemia? [1:27:31] Huh. [1:27:32] Lack of blood flow. [1:27:35] to part of a body, usually because of an artery is narrowed or blocked, severe or prolonged, the affected tissue could be damaged or die. Oh, great. Oh, wonderful. So you think about... [1:27:50] Incense? You think like healthy, natural people. Oh, they burn incense. It sounds lovely. It sounds like they're spiritual. Oh, incense. I used to love incense. I used to use it all the time. [1:28:01] Thought it was cool. [1:28:03] Maybe like [1:28:03] You know. [1:28:04] Be more peaceful. [1:28:06] Incense. [1:28:07] Bad for you. [1:28:09] everything's bad for you. You know what's bad for you? [1:28:11] These straws, if you trip with them. [1:28:13] You know, a lot of people have died. These are metal straws. Really? They've died because they're on their phone and they're not paying attention. They stub their toe and fall and this thing goes through their eyeball and they die. Oh, shoot. [1:28:24] Yeah. [1:28:24] Okay. [1:28:25] I won't recommend that. But also, you could die just falling. [1:28:30] I mean, if you're falling and you're holding a steel straw, throw it to the side. [1:28:35] That's my advice. So if you want to... [1:28:37] Do this little experiment of one that we're talking about. Okay. Okay.

[1:28:41] And of Juan, unless Jamie wants to do it, too. Jamie's in. Look at him. [1:28:45] He's down. [1:28:47] Then... [1:28:48] Jenna or somebody on her team, if you had an hour, half an hour, I don't know how long it took, call you and say... [1:28:56] Ask you. [1:28:57] what did you use what you use what you use for this this this right right and then [1:29:02] They'll recommend... [1:29:04] what to change. Right. I recently underwent this plasma phoresis thing. Yeah. And that's supposed to remove a lot of that stuff from your blood, correct? [1:29:14] So I'll tell you what, the next day... [1:29:17] um i was very tired that day like exhausted that day but the next day afterwards i felt like lighter i felt like oh this is crazy i felt like i had more energy like it was like kind of late at night i was like i'm not tired at all this is weird like i felt different you know so that would be great are you gonna do it again [1:29:37] No, I just did it. I mean, I would do it again, but I just did it a few days ago. I was just wondering, you know, if you measured chemicals in your urine before you did that. I should have done that. And then after that. I don't have any pee laying around from before. No. [1:29:54] But I could do it now. Yeah. [1:29:56] And maybe I have very low levels and we could attribute that to – because I haven't done the best job. Like I said, I did get rid of my plastic coffee machine at home. I did that about three or four weeks ago. One of the things it's done is it's made my morning coffee a lot harder to get.

[1:30:16] It's more of like a ritual now because I use a steel water boiler thing that heats it up to 200 degrees. And then I have a steel French press and I grind the beans in a steel thing. Right. And then I pour the beans in the French press and it takes 15 minutes rather than 30 seconds. And how does it taste? It tastes way better. [1:30:39] Well, I'm a big coffee drinker. I love coffee, but I like it black. Like I love the flavor of coffee. Yeah, me too. I really do. And so it just tastes better. French press, I think, is the best way to drink coffee anyway. And so I kind of decided, like, why am I – I'm avoiding all these microplastics. I don't drink out of plastic or paper cups. I do all these different things. Why am I still using a plastic coffee machine? I look at that thing every morning, and I was like, yeah, but it's going to give me coffee right now. So I press the button to get my coffee right now. [1:31:09] Like, that's stupid. [1:31:10] So now I only use something like this. Cool. Cool. [1:31:13] Yeah. [1:31:14] So I'd be interested to see if maybe I have low levels because I certainly feel like my body – [1:31:22] It felt refreshed, like I had less inflammation. [1:31:26] You know, but – [1:31:26] that's like a two-hour procedure. It's a pain in the butt. You know, you got to sit there for two hours. You look like a psycho. You have like... I should have taken a photo of what I looked like while I was doing it, because I was laying there, and I had like cords in this arm and cords in that arm. So I had... [1:31:44] Blood coming out of that arm and going back into that arm is really kind of nutty. How expensive.

[1:31:50] I don't know. [1:31:51] Yeah, I don't know. [1:31:54] I'm sure it's not cheap. But the... [1:31:58] The benefits of it in terms of like the people that I know that have done it said it's a game changer in terms of your recovery, market recovery levels, much better sleep. Like if you're wearing an aura ring or a whoop strap or something along those lines, you get much better recovery. [1:32:12] And I think that's probably the case with me. I feel pretty good. [1:32:16] But I do a lot of stuff. I do a lot of things to maximize my health. So it's really kind of difficult to know what's doing what. I just know all in all. We always say in my field, do one thing at a time. Right. Of course. If you're doing science. Yeah. I'm not doing science. I'm doing chaos. [1:32:36] Well, you're doing an experiment of one. Yeah. But it works. All of it together is definitely working. My body is pretty good. [1:32:46] mentioning how [1:32:48] It's going to be very hard to get these things regulated. And I just wanted to point out, [1:32:52] We probably talked about this last time, but... [1:32:55] you know, [1:32:56] Where do these... [1:32:58] chemicals come from [1:33:00] These plasticizers. And you probably know they're made from fossil fuel. [1:33:06] byproducts, yes? Yeah. So, [1:33:09] It didn't... [1:33:10] The forces... [1:33:12] against eliminating them are not only the manufacturers of the plastic, but it's also the fossil fuel industry. Right. So that makes it extremely difficult. Right.

[1:33:23] Yeah. And [1:33:24] It's probably one of the primary factors in why this isn't discussed because it would reduce fossil fuel consumption, which would affect oil markets, which would affect the economy. It's big. It's big. Yeah. Yeah. [1:33:38] But, I mean, the rate at which plastic... [1:33:40] Production is increasing, is astounding, you know. Yes. And no end in sight. This episode is brought to you by Chime. Chime is bringing something fresh to banking. J.D. Power just ranked them the number one choice for new bank accounts in America. And that's not a small thing. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. [1:34:10] of free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category that you actually pick yourself. [1:34:22] Your savings rate, nine times the national average. That's crazy high. Go to chime.com slash Rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for more details. [1:34:48] This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. One thing you probably don't think about when you're planning the perfect summer getaway is protecting your home. But if disaster strikes, you want to be prepared. Even better, if it can be stopped before it happens. So check out SimpliSafe. They're the smarter option when it comes to home security because their systems help prevent and stop crime in real time before it starts. There's also no long-term contracts and no technician appointments.

[1:35:18] custom system and set it up in one afternoon by yourself or even sooner. It's one of many reasons why millions of people continue to trust and use SimpliSafe. Everyone deserves to have peace of mind, which is why I'm happy to partner with SimpliSafe again and offer an exclusive discount. Right now you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com slash Rogan. That's half off at simplisafe.com slash Rogan. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. [1:35:48] Well, I don't think you're going to get the government to act about this stuff. I think this has to be done on an individual level where people are aware of it and take steps to protect themselves and their family from these issues. That's my cynical view of how this is going to be played out. And I'm really hoping – I know for a fact a lot of people listened to our last conversation and made some lifestyle changes. I'm really hoping that now with this follow-up visit – [1:36:17] more and more people will be aware of it. And watching the movie. Yes, and watching the movie. And the movie's called, what's it called again? [1:36:22] the [1:36:23] Plastic Detox. The Plastic Detox. And where is this movie available? In your house. Right. But is it available on Amazon, Netflix? It's Netflix. Okay. Watch on Netflix. Netflix is great. Yeah. There's so many great documentaries on Netflix. The Hidden Dangers of Plastics in Our Homes. Six Couples Embark on a Plastic Detox. [1:36:45] Within their homes, it changes their families forever. The Plastic Detox explains what microplastics and their chemicals are doing to our health and how we can take matters into our own hands. From hormone disruption that's fueling a worldwide fertility crisis to growing rates of cancer and early heart attack and stroke, this powerful documentary reveals the shocking science behind plastics' impact on human life.

[1:37:06] Do you want to see a little trailer? Sure. Let's watch a little trailer. Put your headphones on. Well, you already know what it says. We just a crap ton of chemicals. Even the smallest levels of exposure can have profound effects. [1:37:21] Fertility worldwide is going down. There you are. And it is tightly linked to chemicals that are commonly used in plastic. We have been trying to get pregnant for over 10 years now, 22 months. [1:37:34] Two and a half years. [1:37:36] Say what you always call yourself [1:37:38] - Ah, I say, you know, Julie, I'm not a human dildo. [1:37:43] - This is a three month intervention where we recruited six couples who have unexplained infertility. We look at measures of semen quality. The cutoff for fertile is about 40. You're technically subfertile, infertile. So that's kind of scary, right? - Yes. [1:38:01] the question is if we lower people's exposure to chemicals that are in plastic can we change their fertility these chemicals not only affect your fertility they also have other health consequences these chemicals can contribute to early heart attacks and stroke autism as well as [1:38:31] Many people think the government takes care of us, but very few chemicals are actually banned from personal care products, and over 1,100 are banned in the EU.

[1:38:44] To have a child, I believe it is a fundamental human right. I think you'd be the best mom ever, and I really want to see that for you. [1:38:53] Plastic doesn't have to come from a toxic petroleum-based material. We can learn to do it otherwise. It can change, and you can help. [1:39:01] with the change. That's another good point that he just said right there, that plastic doesn't have to come from petroleum-based materials. And most people aren't aware of that, but you can make [1:39:14] plastic out of plant compounds. Yes. And it's biodegradable. Yes. Which is like they make a hemp plastic. Right. Potatoes. Yeah, potatoes. Yeah. And probably a bunch of other stuff too, right, that you can make plastic out of that doesn't have these effects. Right. [1:39:31] It would be really nice if we moved in that direction, wouldn't it? Absolutely. Absolutely. The plant-based plastics have the cost of raising the plants, of course. There's that added cost. Right. But does that even compare to the cost of pulling oil out of the ground and refining it and then turning it into plastic through some horrific process? [1:39:52] that turns the rivers blue or whatever it does. God knows what it does. Color it turns us. Right. Um, [1:39:59] Is there a list of garments that people shouldn't wear? Are you aware of that, the plastic leaching garments? Well, the only specific ones I know are... [1:40:12] Because people have told me about them. Are the sports uniforms, team uniforms. Because they have a coating on them. Yeah. Is it to make them more durable is the idea? And probably this book, To Die For, will have more information. And I have it and I'm just so busy with this right now. But I'm going to read it. And then –

[1:40:35] *sigh* [1:40:37] sports uniforms, kids uniforms, [1:40:39] Airline. [1:40:41] Personnel uniforms. I think uniforms. Firefighters. Firefighters are big, big exposure to these chemicals, too. Right. Yeah. Because they wear those waterproof. Yeah. Anything with it. Yeah, that's right. Anything that's waterproof, stain proofed, just like your Teflon pants, you know, barrier. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. But I don't know any particular. [1:41:03] particular brands. So I'd imagine like nylon track suits and all those different things. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be terrible for you. [1:41:09] I mean, customers could look for, when they buy these things, they could look for PFAS-free. [1:41:16] Just like now people know to look for... [1:41:18] BPA-free or, you know, if they could look at PFAS-free, then they would be avoiding a lot of this. So go back to the top, please. It says the worst offenders are synthetic plastic-heavy garments that are fuzzy, coated, or very tight to the skin, especially polyester fleece, recycled polyester fast fashion, and PFAS-coated water stain repellent, outerwear, and activewear. Polyester fleece jackets, blankets, loungewear, extremely high microfiber shedding. [1:41:48] Orders of magnitude more fibers per wash than other knits, which estimates around 110,000 fibers per garment per wash. This is both bad for environmental plastic pollution and for indoor dust and air. [1:42:02] Recycled polyester fast fashion like leggings, tees, dresses, and sportswear. New testing shows recycled polyester garments shed more and finer microfibers than virgin polyester.

[1:42:17] Interesting. So you think recycled. Oh, I'm recycling. I'm a good person. No, you're killing yourself. Increased particle numbers and potential toxicity. These items are often cheaply made, shed heavily in washing and frequently use intense dyes and finishes. [1:42:34] Hot pink. [1:42:36] Tight synthetic sportswear and underwear. Yikes. These are worn for long periods directly against sweaty skin and mucous membranes, increasing opportunity for contact with microplastics and additives like antimony, phthalates, and PFAS finishes. [1:43:06] or leach on top of the base synthetic fiber issues. [1:43:10] Lower concern choices. Okay, not perfect, but generally less problematic for leaching and microplastic shedding. Undyed or lightly dyed natural fibers like cotton, linen, wool, hemp, silk, without stain-resistant or wrinkle-free finishes. Simple weaves, knits rather than fluffy or brushed surfaces, which shed less. PFAS-free rain gear and outdoor clothing. [1:43:35] Brands now often as people... What? [1:43:38] What rain gear is... [1:43:40] PFAS free. That's interesting because I've always thought that it has to be coded. [1:43:47] A lot of work, a lot of work.

[1:44:03] Thank you. [1:44:04] I [1:44:06] It has been kind of surprising how much interest there is and how much interest [1:44:12] People are taking this up. And what's great is there are a lot of nonprofits that are in the space that are getting out these messages. So it's not just me. Many, many. [1:44:24] nonprofits. And, um, [1:44:26] And then there's a... [1:44:29] You know, there's the... [1:44:30] the [1:44:31] Plastics Treaty, which is worldwide. It didn't pass, but hopefully it will come back and maybe next time. And then there's the work that the EU is doing, which is... [1:44:41] miles ahead of us. For example, [1:44:43] I think I might have said this before, but just so in Europe, [1:44:50] If you're going to put a new chemical into commerce, it has to pass certain tests to be safe. [1:44:58] Right. Not here. Right. [1:45:01] So the testing is on you and me and everyone listening today. [1:45:06] And, I mean, we haven't really... [1:45:09] raise their hand and volunteer for that. [1:45:12] Well, I mean, I don't want this to happen, but I think maybe what has to happen is these companies have to get in trouble, you know. [1:45:20] Well, some of them have. There are lawsuits. Are there lawsuits against outerwear, clothing, yoga pants? I don't know. I don't know. Because yoga pants are a problem, right? Yoga pants. Yes. Yeah, those tight nylon things that a lot of the gals wear to...

[1:45:36] I don't know where the lawsuits are. I might at some point get involved in that. But at this point, I don't know. But I know there are lawsuits and that they can be effective way to push back. And by the way, you said we wouldn't get a federal law. And I think that's. [1:45:52] Not for a long time, but states can do it. California, for example, is doing lots of good stuff. What are they doing about it? I can't name you the laws, but I know they're very active. [1:46:06] Bonta, Ron Bonta, he's a district attorney. [1:46:11] Attorney General of the state of California. He's very active. And so the states that have active communities [1:46:16] you know, push back, able to get laws passed, that kind of sets [1:46:22] tone for what's possible. But I don't see us getting federal [1:46:28] Bushback very [1:46:29] No, it seems like industry controls the federal government more than the health and safety concerns of the people, which is very disturbing but not too surprising when you consider a lot of the other things that are allowed in this country that aren't allowed in other countries. Like when you show that list of the chemicals that are illegal in the EU, that are illegal in America, that's disturbing. [1:46:54] Look, we're supposed to be number one. We're number one. We're number one in chemicals. Number one in chemicals. Yeah. Probably. Probably. The response when you were on this podcast was pretty shocking for me. So many people reached out to me.

[1:47:09] A lot of my friends that watched the episode were like, I can't believe this. Oh, I have no idea. It was five years ago. But quite a few of my friends that don't reach out with every episode reached out and said that – [1:47:21] is just nuts like I can't believe this and especially people with children and they're concerned about the development of their children or people who are pregnant who are concerned with the intake of these chemicals while they're pregnant which has a radical effect on the child's development. Well – And alligator penises. If your friends are listening now, I can tell them that it hasn't – [1:47:44] changed much. It hasn't improved much, and we have to do a lot more. [1:47:50] Well, personally, and you know, I hate to say it, but I think, like I said, I don't think the government's going to do anything. I think it's got to be up to individuals to make choices. And I'm really hoping your documentary has another big impact. One of the beautiful things about Netflix is that. [1:48:09] Even though things get promoted on Netflix, so many people have Netflix that whenever anything's good, a lot of people just start sharing it and start talking about it and posting about it on social media. And then next thing, the conversation starts happening and starts raising awareness. And I really do hope you're going to go on a bunch of other podcasts as well and talk about this. Thank you.

[1:48:39] but even more important than that is someone's enthusiasm. They should want to be there. Finding the right kind of motivation isn't as tough as you think. You just need ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. ZipRecruiter connects you with qualified candidates instantly, and their latest feature puts the most interested ones at the top of your list [1:49:09] at the start. Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. This summer, soccer is here [1:49:39] But don't worry, Uber Eats has your game day essentials covered with 30% off all orders from Aldi, Kroger, and Dollar General. All the snacks and groceries to keep your crowd happy delivered straight to your door like chips, dips, wings, guac, and fresh ingredients for the perfect game day spread. Order in so you can stay locked in on the game. All the hosting, none of the hassle.

[1:50:09] And there are showings on Netflix. [1:50:29] you know [1:50:30] encourages that. And I'm going actually all over the world talking at showings. Now, the schedule is like crazy. Do you ever think like how crazy it is that you're this one person that's sounding the alarm? Because you kind of are the most public face of this problem. [1:50:47] That is a little crazy to me, especially given where I've come from. But what if you didn't exist? This is the question. Oh, there are many, many people pushing back. Many, many. Right. But I don't know if they're doing it as publicly as you are and certainly not. I mean, they haven't been on this podcast. There are many that are. [1:51:02] I... [1:51:04] I feel lucky that I've had this opportunity, like speaking to you and your followers and other podcasts and – [1:51:15] And then having the opportunity to have designed this intervention and have worked with Louis and others on the film team to put this forward, it's a very big thing. And, you know, the film costs a lot of money. And we've had worldwide support for putting this out. So there's a lot of support behind the pushback. And we just have to get everybody on board. [1:51:35] on board and just say, "No, I'm not going to use that stuff."

[1:51:39] Yeah, that's really what has to happen. The conversation has to increase. The volume has to increase. More people have to share it and talk about it and more people have to have you on. And, you know, we just have to sound the alarm. It's kind of crazy that five years later, nothing's changed. Because, like I said, it shook up a lot of people that I'm friends with. But I didn't hear it from any other places. [1:52:09] Thank you. [1:52:10] You know Huberman? Sure. Very well. He's great. Yeah, he's great. And there are – I can't remember the – but yes, a lot of podcasts. But hopefully now more. I do have more coming up. My schedule is really kind of crazy. One other thing that's great is the documentary is easily digestible. Yes. It's on Netflix. Everything's on Netflix. You sit down. Okay, let's watch. And then – [1:52:32] You go, oh, my God. And then there's all these places to go at the end of it to learn more if people want to do that. I would love to see it. [1:52:42] Viewed by... [1:52:44] influencers, not in the typical... [1:52:47] you know, social media sense, but people like religious leaders, [1:52:52] you know, leaders who [1:52:54] could be won over [1:52:57] You know, if you have any ideas, you know, but I thought about having... [1:53:01] You know... [1:53:03] the Pope. I mean, it sounds really wild, but you know, a lot of people get their information. Where do people get their information? Like from their religious leaders, from their

[1:53:12] peers and [1:53:14] from their doctors. By the way, none of this is taught in medical school. That's crazy. That's crazy right there. Well, neither is nutrition. [1:53:22] Right. [1:53:23] Yeah. [1:53:24] So... [1:53:25] you know [1:53:27] Somebody's got to spend a lot of time getting that curriculum changed, right? Actually, you have to get the test changed because the – [1:53:34] teaching us to the test. So if we get this stuff on the test, there would be more doctors learning this, but they don't get it. [1:53:41] They don't get it. They learn about lead. That's about all. [1:53:44] Well, there's not a lot of incentive to teach this stuff. That's part of the problems that – especially – [1:53:50] These petrochemical companies and the use of these things is going to affect – [1:53:59] so many different industries because if you cut that out and they – I mean how much of an impact is that going to have on the economy? If everybody just stopped using all these chemicals, all the Lululemon brands and I don't know how to single them out, but all these different companies, if they all just went under tomorrow, it would be a giant problem if everybody just stopped using these things. [1:54:22] Maybe for a little while, but then they'd be healthier. Well, the people would be healthier, but the companies would go under. Oh, the companies will not be healthier. No. Unless they make the switch. But what could they do to make the switch? Like if you're a company. Well, you were saying like plant-based plastics. Mm-hmm. [1:54:38] Do they make plant-based plastic clothing? Does anybody do that? Like plant-based plastic leggings?

[1:54:44] Let's find that out. [1:54:46] Does anybody make plant-based plastic? Used in clothing. Yeah. [1:54:52] What is the primary chemicals that come out? Is it PFAS? PFAS? Yeah. [1:54:57] PFAS free. [1:54:59] leggings, because I would imagine, especially if you're not wearing underwear and you're wearing those [1:55:05] kind of yoga tights, that would just get in there, right? [1:55:09] Well, speaking of that, they're looking for... they want him to be squat-proof, in quotes. [1:55:15] So they're not see-through. [1:55:17] Squat proof? Yeah, if there's girls wearing leggings, you know, they're going to be doing a lot of squats at the gym probably or something. Squat proof. So they don't want people to be watching them a lot, but there are some. I don't know what that means, watching them a lot? Yeah, you know, dude. Oh, see-through. Yeah, yeah, they're see-through. But that's a weird way to say. Squat proof sounds to me like you can't do squats in them. Also probably ripping, I would imagine, too. I think it's just a bad phrase. [1:55:47] some undies through the fabric. This is one of the tested nine different kinds of them. So there's a few different brands. Now, this isn't even really... [1:55:54] Oh, the bioplastic. Go back. [1:55:58] Yeah, bioplastic. Three primary categories of non-toxic workout clothes. All natural or almost all natural. For example, 100% organic cotton or 90% cotton, 10% spandex. Most semi-synthetic fabric, for instance, 10-cell fabric, plant-based plastic, which is a plastic source from something like castor bean oil instead of fossil fuels. In general, I'm not a huge fan of plant-based bioplastics. They are advertised as plastic-free alternatives, but they're still plastic.

[1:56:28] Research shows that they're not truly non-toxic. I know. It's disappointing, it says. Here's the honest-to-God truth. When it comes to performance, stretchiness, compression, durability, the plant-based plastics do tend to perform the best. [1:56:43] Huh. [1:56:44] Followed by the semi-synthetics. Followed by the all-now. I think they mean perform the best in terms. Out of the three, I think. But in terms of stretchiness. [1:56:54] Oh, the other three. A lot of product categories were non-toxic options. Performs just as well as a synthetic option like shampoo, to give you one example. It's not really as straightforward with leggings. At the end of the day, you're going to have to decide for yourself what kind of material you prefer. [1:57:10] It will largely depend on things like what type of workouts you do, how you like your leggings to feel, where you work out, and more. [1:57:18] Mmm. [1:57:21] Okay, my reviews on these nine almost plastic-free, non-toxic leggings. All right, let's get to it. It says, what are the ones? So Mate, it's a company called Mate. Overall review, they're the best middle ground leggings. They're not super high performance. I don't know what that means. But they're made from healthier materials and are very comfortable. They're great for lower impact workouts, just for general everyday wearing. [1:57:48] Squat test passed but had to size up. [1:57:52] So let's find what the best one is. Do they have the best one? I don't. So mate is one of them. What are the other ones?

[1:57:59] Pangaea [1:58:02] Overall review, I find myself reaching for these leggings more often than any of the others when it comes to hardcore workouts. Compressive nature of them makes me feel very held in when I'm jumping around. They have great stretch, squat test, pass, material blend, 92% polyamide bio-based EVO, bio-based content, 8% part bio-based creora elastane, 30% bio-based content. [1:58:32] to conventional synthetics in terms of fit, feel, stretch, and compression. [1:58:37] Okay. [1:58:38] Well, so this website is thefittery.com and forward slash plastic-free, non-toxic workout leggings. Go check it out for yourself. [1:58:48] So there's some options that are out there. Hopefully we'll give those companies a boost and... [1:58:53] More people will wear them. [1:58:54] Anything else before we get going? [1:58:57] Think we covered it all? [1:58:58] I think so. I think we sounded the alarm. [1:59:01] I think we... [1:59:02] Try it again anyway. Yeah, we did something. Yeah. Like I said, I think it's just a volume thing. More and more of these conversations have to take place so that – [1:59:14] in the general zeitgeist, more people are aware of it, and it's just increased awareness and just makes it [1:59:23] where more people are making better choices. And your platform is so huge that I'm really encouraged to have the opportunity to –

[1:59:31] talk about this with you and... [1:59:33] Happy to come back. [1:59:34] Well, I'd be happy to have you back. I loved you the first time. You're great the second time as well. And for everybody... [1:59:42] One more time, the plastic detox. [1:59:44] That's the name of the documentary. It's available right now on Netflix. Go check it out and fix your life, kids. [1:59:53] All right. Thank you. I really appreciate it. It was really fun. Thank you. [1:59:57] That's great. And I'm really so happy that you're out there because, like I said, if you weren't doing this very important work, I wouldn't know about it. And I think a lot of other people wouldn't either. [2:00:05] So thank you. So pee in the cup. I will pee in the cup. I promise you. I promise you I'll pee in the cup and I'll send it. And then if you want... [2:00:12] To do the next steps, let me know. [2:00:14] I will do the next steps as well. You want to? Okay. Sure. So when you're ready to have another kid. Talk to that microphone so people know what you're saying. Yeah. [2:00:20] So when you're ready to have another... [2:00:24] Teskett. [2:00:26] Or you can go to Million Marker and just order one. Okay. Yeah. Okay. It's $100. All right. We'll do it. But we'll send it for nothing if you want. Just let me know. I'll give you the $100. Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. All right. Bye, everybody. [2:00:53] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight.

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